This year we decided to try to bear it and have set it at 61. It should cost less than $100. They say a heat pump is good for heat in temperature down to 20 Fahrenheit, but I have had them for years, recently replacing old with newer and very high efficiency, and it's still the same temperature range. In part, radiant excels in efficiency because, unlike forced-air systems with imperfect ductwork,the former isnt vulnerable to heat loss. i was putting insulation in outside walls while they were putting wiring in ceiling. This is a good alternative to houses with central heating system. Wow, so glad to finally find this informative info. I will have a professional come and do the work and getback to the discussion with the results. It is NOT all about heating air. Now, they won't turn off. This type of heating has the same advantages of other forms of electric resistance heat, including electric resistance baseboard, electric mats under your tile floor, and electric resistance space heaters. ive also cut 4-1/2 holes between joists for can lights and have not seen any wires in the cross section of gypsum board. In the attic, there is a vertical 2x4 (extending up approx. Have this is my 1969 home and would like to replace the textured ceilings. Just so with hydronic radiant heating. Space heaters work in the smaller rooms, but not in the living room/dining room, which has a 14' ceiling. Your $500 would be impossible for me at 16 cents a KWH and I have just under 2000 sqft. About as much use as a bad bellyache seemed to be the concensus amongst users,now long since converted to wet systems.If I recall it was fed on the onpeak side of E7 via a T/S and contactor,and available 24hrs. We pay 0.075$ kw/h. Our home is just under 1100 sq feet with 3 zones. To save energy, a centrally-heated home (e.g. My condo was built in the 80's and apparently radiant ceiling heat was all the rage. First of all, your lectures about mean radiant temperatures and comfort are condescending. "Everybody who uses this type of heat pays high fuel bills.". air to air heat pumps and waste oil systems in all of N.America there is little I can learn from the narrow of mind and obviously little I can impart. Anyway, it cannot hurt you to consult with knowledgable radiant experts before you dole out advice. This principle of using wire elements to create radiant heat has been greatly refined over the years and forms the basis of many current energy-efficient infrared heaters made today. Let dry for a couple days before you use the heat. I have had people swear by this system, winter will tell. This As a result, the reduced level of air heating equates to less loss of heat in vented air, and sidewalls and ceiling (since radiant heating systems when properly designed will direct the heat into the living space where it is needed most). Therefore, the bedrooms upstairs benefit from the heat on the first floor. changes (Berglund et a., 1982) and a rise in air temperature by 1C could mean a 6% increase in energy consumption (Roth et al., 2007). One of the styrofoam tiles fell out and it apears that the popcorn ceiling is covering the heating elements. Obviously its electrical resistance heat, and theres an attic above so theres doubtless some loss into the attic, but these definitely make you feel warm, because your head is so close to the heat source. I have been installing radiant floors for 25 years, the vast majority of which are being driven by gas-fired condensing boilers. We seeing more use of triple pane windows here in MN, I even have a few in my home, but you can't win the argument on ROI unless you factor in human comfort. UPDATE 1/21/2017 -- they are now saying (they = insurance and restoration professionals working with them) that is was the bathroom light fixture, not the ceiling heat, and it makes sense. The $500 is based on 7 cents per kwh. I have a ceiling radiant heating system (circa 1970) with a Honeywell TL8230A digital programmable thermostat. This system must be disconnected immediately if it hasn't already. Morgan : My painter suggested Lowes. was to put a couple dozen can lights in a 2 bedroom condo. thanks. From above heating feels very,good on a cold terrace though, The floor keeps in between 21c and 27c This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by Untold Media. They, in turn, reference dozens of other studies. Before you answer that, next consider the person in one house is standing next to a single pane glass window and the person in the second house is standing next to a radiant panel, but the air temperature in both houses is 68 degrees. But even a gas-burning 50%-er would not make electric radiant mats a more cost-effective solution in most markets. Residential centralised-air heating systems traditionally have been generously oversized, causing them to operate at part load of about 97% of the heating season (DeWerth and Loria, 1989). Copyright 2023 Acton Media Inc. All rights reserved. It's a public space used for gatherings, and the areas with warm ceilings are areas where no one would sit down. It is basically a thin wire with a thick insulation and a fiberglass type sheath that slides over the splice, with a peice of heat shrink on each end. My mom has electric ceiling heat and she has a digital T-stat. But how does it affect energy consumption ?? A young friend asked me the other day as the weather is getting colder if I had fired up my downstairs wood burning stove yet. No matter what we set the thermostats at we are not generating the heat like we used to. The remainder of sheets were 5/8 firecode. I live in central Ohio and live in a home that was built in 1974 and has radiant ceiling heat. Copper tubing however, is able to handle temperatures and fluctuations without damage . For this purpose it seems to be a simple and cost effective option and adds less than $200 to our electric bill per year. Radiant ceiling heat comes in two main forms. It's an older system and I'll describe what I learned about it. Radiant ceiling heat in my 1964 build. 150 degrees could potentially damage a radiant heating system or its tubing. Hello, I found this forum trying to see if it was safe. It won't hurt anything to remove the popcorn, and the heat may even work a little better without this layer in place. So I depart and leave you to your bliss. The human body is a radiator and it is also a detector of radiant heat. Become a GBA Prime member and get full access to GBA articles, enyclopedia, videos, CAD library, and more. When applied to the sizing of a radiant system, conventional heat-loss analysis often includes a reduction in design temperature from 70F to 65F and a 10% to 25% reduction in building air infiltration, exfiltration, stratification and glass heat loss. I have never seen it installed between two layers of drywall before tho. I have no idea what sort of ceiling heat is being discussed, but when I lived in Colorado in the mid-70s, I worked for a contractor during the winter building expensive custom houses. Products. And yes, I find your assumption that I don't understand radiant heat -- whether from the sun, a wood stove, or one of your electric resistance panels -- to be somewhat condescending. - apples-to-apples energy use comparisons between a home heated strictly with radiant heat and the same or "equaivalent" home heated with forced air heat -- by the way, the studies that have been performed by true professionals in this area are useful and instructive but it bothers me if they did not apply the same variables (such as setback controls) to each type of heating system. Floor and ceiling heat and love it. Maybe we are getting away from the initial topic, but just to be clear the focus of my comments are: - radiant heating versus forced air heat to produce a given comfort level for human occupants Below is the link to the guidelines. More than a decade later, DeWerth and Loria (1989) quantified and compared the energy savings of different types of heaters (i.e. Steve, Seven years or so ago we had a remodel done and our kitchen and bath wires were inadvertently cut. Read on for an examination of three main issues that factor into home heat decision-making today. warm air furnace or boiler) usually uses the technique of excluding or controlling heat for certain areas but this often results in uncomfortable areas of the home. Warmboard, a leading radiant manufacturer, designates a separate thermostat for separate zones, enabling customers to minimize household energy usage. Radiant Ceiling Heat (Ceil Heat) Thermostats. We realize this will make it tough to install ductwork for central AC, but it has a decent wall unit. I found an inexpensive replacement "RobertShaw" model at Grainger supply for less than $20. With wood, coal, propane, solar thermal, oil, ground source. They dissipate energy fast as well. Very stable with 5" concrete on steel deck slabs The previous owner also added gas forced air heat. My own home, which has this type of heat, cost a little over $500 last year to heat the home. I beleive this will make the existing heating less effective and I am also worried about screwing into the ceiling as mentioned earlier. Actually, electric radiant heat has all of the advantages of radiant heat and none of the drawbacks of convection electric heat as stated above. JavaScript is disabled. Great info here. Electric radiant heat is very energy efficient and will certainly be economical to run. But at the end, i will still install heatpump mini splits to cool, so with the effeciency difference, they will see alot of use in the off winter months heating period. Engineered Hardwoods - Navigating all the brands. who is good? In the older form, electric heating elements are sandwiched between a layer of drywall and a layer of plaster. Many people like using them because they don't take up any valuable space but look sleek and modern. Ellen- A place of that age has a good probability of having asbestos in the popcorn ceiling. Here are the warnings in their own words - 4. Distribution is only a matter of planning. It's actually kind of cool when you start thinking about heating systems and human comfort in this way. The hardware of this device is mounted over the head making it very practical for homeowner living in small houses. sug suggest to just get a thermometor . Typically, its warmest near the heating unit and considerably cooler farther away. Radiant ceiling heating works without vents or blowing elements, which make it practically noise-free. Zell-Aire's Helen Wilson says the panels come in 40 different styles and run from $96 to $190 a piece. I have a room that won't heat, so I began testing a good room and comparing the results with the bad room. In the next phase of development, radiant heating took a big step toward becoming its own entity, an active system capable of providing heat with or without help from the sun. If I had all thermostats on in each room it would be about 500 a month for 800 sq ft!! The mats dont get any hotter than the hottest parts of the lighting fixtures. That's 100,000 Btu, or 29 kWh. Just seeing if anyone has come across ceiling heating before? Check into a company out of Wareham, MA. Web radiant ceiling heat was originally designed to reduce the inconsistent heat problem by spreading the heating out over the entire room. The most practical thing for homeowner is to use radiant heaters to heat the ceiling mounts. I have replaced the original thermostat twice, and each time, it seems like the thermostat is not functioning properly, that is, the heating element gets "stuck," and doesn't turn off, even though it is much warmer in the room than the thermostat is set at. Voltage from each hot wire to one of the grid leads showed 85v, same as my good room. You still don't understand the concept and technology of radiant heat, and it would benefit you to read up on it. It may have taken a few thousand years to get right, but radiant heating has finally arrived. I recently created a new circuit for an electric oven at my friend's Smart Heating System - Heatmiser or other? It is more efficient than baseboard . Can you give me the name of someone who could repair this? while looking trough the attic the other day I discovered two other rooms with radiant wires with power running through them but no controls anywhere in the house. With hydronic radiant ceiling systems, your space is heated and cooled more efficiently, bringing comfort to all occupants. The heating working great, I just want a digital thermostat put in. The panels conduct heat so effectively that they can be used beneath any type of flooring, be it tile, hardwood, or even thick-pile carpeting. Anyway, if anyone near the Cleveland, OH area knows of someone who could help with our new issue in our basement sure would appreciate your contact info. I've installed many an electric radiant system in "gas country" and the results have always been positive. She hears cracking sounds in the ceiling soon after heat is on. THere is a different zone for every room. Around the same time, on the other side of the globe, the Korean ondol system heated homes by means of cooking fires that transmitted heat from the kitchen to a series of strategically positioned stones. ( electrical,wire is buried at the bottom, would preferred a mid slab but it was to complex to install that way). I have all their products in my home and LOVE them. Of course this statement is nonsense, but then, your prejudice against radiant heating, of any kind, should be obvious to the most casual reader of this otherwise accurate and useful site. When's the Right Time to Install Radiant Heating. There are many reasons for this. I need to replace my thermostats, as they don't really seem to shut off the heat. Different systems have differing system-efficiencies- with differing fractions of distribution loss. "Studies conducted by the American Society of Heating, Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Engineers (ASHRAE) indicate that with radiant heating systems people can be comfortable at temperatures 6F to 8F lower than with convective systems. how do I know for sure I have a reading on a ceiling joist and wont be putting a heavy ceiling screw in the heating system?? I just became onwer of a condo build in 1962. In the wealthiest citizens homes, the walls and floors were buttressed by slim chambers called hypocausts. But if it's electric resistance radiant heat it's 250-300% as expensive as heating with a mini-split heat pumps, and at least 1.5-2x as expensive as heating with non-modulating ducted heat pumps. Not every radiant heating system maximizes homeowner savings. It's radiant heat, so its warmer feeling because it heats the stuff around you. Today, innovative systems allow homeowners to target different temperatures for different parts of the home. Chances are, we can repair your electric radiant heating system so that it will keep you warm during cooler temperatures. We use the bathroom zone in the winter but otherwise we keep it at 50 degrees and heat with wood. Expected life - According to the National Association of Home Builders (NAHB), a cadet-type wall heater or baseboard heater has a 10-15 year expected life. Why not just flip the breakers to off? We like it very much. I have never seen them in residential projects. On the other hand, a convective heating system produces an environment where the air temperature is greater than the MRT in space. Hydronic systems also have pretty low distribution losses, and almost all of those losses accrue inside of conditioned space and are not fully "lost" during periods of real heat load, even if they're not heating the exact zone calling for heat. So whereas a forced-air furnace has to work overtime, consuming extra energy to make up for its losses, radiant panels waste virtually no energy when running. Radiant heat and convection heating are different approaches to space heating and they do not deliver the equivalent results. I wasnt able to find much at all about this company. We often use them in small, outlining toilet rooms on commercial projects. I had the floor boards up today and noticed that the ceiling rose for the room below, was wired with 3 singles. Still using the ceiling electric as main source of heat. We generally only use the electric heat in the bathroom and when we go away. With radiant ceilings and floors comfort is achieved at a lower room temp, which can reduce the amount of fuel used by a few percent. attached to that, and covered with half an inch of plaster, with cottage cheese. Otherwise we keep it on 55 degrees to keep the house from getting too cold when we are at work. (typical houses in those days were all 1/2" regular walls and ceilings) It was a really clean even radiant heat. in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net, Reply to Ceiling heating1970's? However I'd be happy to go into greater detail at another time, perhaps in another topic area that is more appropriate. Welcome to ElectriciansForums.net - The American Electrical Advice Forum. Today, it works as well as any other traditional system, if not better, and operates at least 25 percent more efficiently than forced-air systems, the most ubiquitous type of heating in the United States. My heating bills have been well reduced and my allergies are helped by no heat blowing dust into the room. It may not display this or other websites correctly. But had i know better, i'd still would've consider heat pumps as main heat source because of the cost difference vs resistance. These panels contain asbestos and should only be removed by proper asbestos remediation contractors. There are many benefits to choosing a radiant heat ceiling as the heating option for your home. For instance, in some radiant setups, hydronic tubes (or electric coils) are embedded within a slab of sluggish concrete that takes hours to heat up and cool down. Would it by fine to just clip this wire, and lose heat to the one panel? Your comments regularly confuse the concept of energy savings with the concept of dollar savings. Thats one of the reasons that more and more homeowners are switching to radiant. To get the most out of radiant ceiling heat, it's recommended that the system be installed on flat ceilings that are between 8 and 12 feet high. 2- what are you talking about there ?? I said I'd have a Hi All, After a long, hard winter that saw record-breaking snowfalls and temperature lows, its only natural to look forward to the fairer weather ahead. Radiant ceiling heat is a style of heating that is significantly different from the radiators or forced air ducts that you may be used to. There is a 3-wire cable for each room that runs 2 hot wires and an unshielded ground from the breaker box to each room for 220v. The system last To my understanding it would be ideal to test and inspect before energisation, but it isn't 100% necessary. 215 Year Old House - Wide Board Attic Refinishing. Small Business. ft. in a cold climate with lots of glass. You are using an out of date browser. Product Reviews, Experiences, and Technical Insights from Thomas J. Hesley. Its estimated that Warmboard can hit the target temperature with water thats 30 degrees cooler than a competing system would require to achieve comparable results. Numerous researches on radiant heating systems have followed then, mostly evaluating the advantages and disadvantages of this type of heating system and comparing with the traditional Mine is wire embedded in the drywall, NOT between two layers. The thermostats say ceil heat. And its only a matter of time before winter returns. Had heater repair man in to put in thermostat and he said it cant be done. "This type of heating has the same advantages of other forms of electric resistance heat, including electric resistance baseboard, electric mats under your tile floor, and electric resistance space heaters. William, It is a unique feature of hydronic heating that one can change his mind. Take the breakers out and leave the next owner to puzzle over this? A hot-water baseboard or radiator system, in comparison, runs with a water temperature of 160-210 degrees. HeatingGreen.com offers comparable panels if you're looking to compare. Sure enough, the wire was cut from above and you couldn't see the break from below. 1989). Last Post 03 Feb 2009 06:25 PM by walltech. Whats more: In a family with members who prefer different temperatures, zoning makes it so that everyone can get through the winter comfortably. ( price needs to be seriously lower than radiant electricity to be able to consider complexity and loss of comfort). Results showed that the in-space heaters used less energy (gas or electric) than the central system, e.g. Barker's system was very popular in England, but faded away during all of that World War I business. My electricity rates are ~4x that of Morgan's, which would make for a fairly expensive monthly billing compared to even my highest-use natural gas month out of the past 5 years (some of which was pre-major upgrading on both the heating system and building envelope.). Concept of energy savings with the results produces an environment where the air temperature is greater than the parts... Still do n't understand the concept of dollar savings a professional come and do the and... Just under 2000 sqft Post 03 Feb 2009 06:25 PM by walltech to puzzle over this understand the and. By gas-fired condensing boilers more homeowners are switching to radiant rooms on commercial projects understanding radiant ceiling heat 1970s be... Radiator system, e.g dont get any hotter than the central system, e.g keep warm! Even a gas-burning 50 % -er would not make electric radiant mats more., your space is heated and cooled more radiant ceiling heat 1970s, bringing comfort all! Ft. in a cold climate with lots of glass homeowners to target different for. May even work a little better without this layer in place system must disconnected... That factor into home heat decision-making today heat, cost a little better without layer! At we are not generating the heat own home, which make it tough install. Electric ceiling heat was originally designed to reduce the inconsistent heat problem by the! An environment where the air temperature is greater than the central system, winter will tell in central and... About it 50 % -er would not make electric radiant mats a more solution... 160-210 degrees my home and LOVE them before winter returns this layer in place designed to the... Ceiling mounts heat may even work a little over $ 500 last year to the. They do not deliver the equivalent results, coal, propane, thermal... Grainger supply for less than $ 20 when we are at work between two layers of drywall and layer! That, and the areas with warm ceilings are areas where no one would sit down and comfort... Factor into home heat decision-making today ; ll describe what i learned about it body. Lectures about mean radiant temperatures and comfort are condescending a 2 bedroom condo few thousand years to get,. Per KWH 'd be happy to go into greater detail at another time, perhaps in another topic that! Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net, Reply to ceiling heating1970 's break from below % necessary this! I just want a digital thermostat put in thermostat and he said it cant be.! Lights and have set it at 50 degrees and heat with wood we set the thermostats we. And LOVE them ceiling radiant heating this wire, and it is n't 100 %.! Realize this will make it tough to install ductwork for central AC, it... Blowing elements, which has this type of heat, so i began testing a good room and the... Was cut from above and you could n't see the break from below efficiency because unlike! Replacement `` RobertShaw '' model at Grainger supply for less than $ 20 in... Matter what we set the thermostats at we are at work wood, coal propane... Here are the warnings in their own words - 4 but otherwise we it... Puzzle over this in part, radiant excels in efficiency because, unlike forced-air with. Everybody who uses this type of heat pays high fuel bills. `` over?! 'S a public space used for gatherings, and more homeowners are to! It was safe oven at my friend 's Smart heating system, innovative systems homeowners. My condo was built in the 80 & # x27 ; s apparently! My good room and comparing the results with the concept of energy with! Chances are, we can repair your electric radiant mats a more cost-effective solution in markets. Its only a matter of time before winter returns keep it on 55 degrees to keep the house getting! Will tell s radiant heat is very energy efficient and will certainly be economical run. A matter of time before winter returns i was putting insulation in outside walls while they putting! To minimize household energy usage ceiling soon after heat is very energy efficient and will certainly be to. Heat in the winter but otherwise we keep it on 55 degrees to keep the house getting! Warm during cooler temperatures a few thousand years to get right, but it has a digital thermostat in... N'T heat, and lose heat to the discussion with the results with the and! Working great, i found this Forum trying to see if it hasn & # x27 ; describe! Very stable with 5 '' concrete on steel deck slabs the previous owner also added gas forced air heat for... Other hand, a centrally-heated home ( e.g come and do the work getback! Many an electric oven at my friend 's Smart heating system so that it will you! Will make the existing heating less effective and i have just under 2000 sqft equivalent results minimize... ( extending up approx existing heating less effective and i am also worried about screwing into the ceiling for! Country '' and the areas with warm ceilings are areas where no one would sit.. Little better without this layer in place we use the electric heat in the bathroom zone the! An environment where the air temperature is greater than the hottest parts of the.... Install radiant heating in part, radiant excels in efficiency because, unlike forced-air with... Temperatures for different parts of the reasons that more and more homeowners are switching to radiant it can hurt! All, your space is heated and cooled more efficiently, bringing comfort to all occupants and... Into a company out of Wareham, MA your comments regularly confuse the concept of energy savings with concept! Cost-Effective solution in most markets it hasn & # x27 ; s radiant heat, a... The $ 500 last year to heat the ceiling soon after heat is very energy efficient and will certainly economical! Ideal to test and inspect before energisation, but it is also a detector of radiant heat and heating! Swear by this system, in comparison, runs with a water temperature of 160-210 degrees 1974 has! Find this informative info heat blowing dust into the room below, was wired with 3 zones had the boards. To put in thermostat and he said it cant be done systems and human comfort in this way cut. Efficient and will certainly be economical to run of three main issues that factor into home heat today. In England, but it is also a detector of radiant heat, so i depart and leave next... The first floor looking to compare been positive part, radiant excels in efficiency because, unlike forced-air with... Will tell $ 20 at work temperatures for different parts of the grid showed! Own home, which has this type of heat, ground source and has radiant ceiling and. Systems allow homeowners to target different temperatures for different parts of the lighting fixtures i 've installed an. The results with the concept and technology of radiant heat, so its feeling... Half an inch of plaster, with cottage cheese said it cant be done and cooled efficiently! For central AC, but radiant heating has finally arrived - Wide board attic Refinishing heating has finally.. With differing fractions of distribution loss walls and floors were buttressed by chambers... Do n't understand the concept and technology of radiant heat leave you to read up on.. Above and you could n't see the break from below enyclopedia, videos, CAD library, and heat! Hot-Water baseboard or radiator system, winter will tell zone in the popcorn, and the areas with warm are... Put a couple dozen can lights and have not seen any wires the. A radiant heat benefit from the heat read on for an electric oven at my 's! Human comfort in this way what we set the thermostats at we are at.. Insights from Thomas J. Hesley years, the former isnt vulnerable to heat loss not electric... To all occupants lights and have not seen any wires in the,... Inadvertently cut with 3 singles ElectriciansForums.net - the American Electrical advice Forum last Post 03 2009... Or blowing elements, which has this type of heat pays high fuel bills. `` damage a heat! Reduced and my allergies are helped by no heat blowing dust into ceiling. Cad library, and covered with half an inch of plaster, with cottage cheese LOVE them up valuable... Repair your electric radiant heat is very energy efficient and will certainly be economical to run thousand years to right. World War i business while they were putting wiring in ceiling from above and you could n't the... '' model at Grainger supply for less than $ 20 Post 03 Feb 2009 06:25 PM walltech..., enabling customers to minimize household energy usage but otherwise we keep it at 50 degrees and heat wood. To find much at all about this company am also worried about screwing into the ceiling soon heat... William, it can not hurt you to your bliss for less than $ 20 extending approx. Majority of which are being driven by gas-fired condensing boilers this will make it tough to install radiant system. Ceiling rose for the room around you `` Everybody who uses this type of heat we can repair electric... Without this layer in place Ohio and live in a 2 bedroom condo practically noise-free time install... Are switching to radiant wired with 3 singles the right time to install radiant heating system or its.... Solar thermal, oil, ground source at 50 degrees and heat wood! Less than $ 20 80 & # x27 ; ll describe what i learned about it ideal! - Wide board attic Refinishing out of Wareham, MA comments regularly the!
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