Not sure about the level yet. Defining features. fy76ys post isnt terrible, but is statistically incorrect. Heard of lack of WLB, unclear responsibilities, and too many meetings. Product. If you find you lose something in translation, address it quickly. What is the MS level equivalent for the Product Manager role at Google? Earn a bachelor's degree. In some places, I have seen it mention that Generalist roles are entry level. A lot of the less prestigious tech stuff (startups and non FAANG) tend to pay less and hours are entirely group/company dependent. Engineering is the technical team of developers and managers who write the code and create the front end, so the clearer the guidance they get upfront, the better. Pay differs drastically between departments. Although software engineers write code, their responsibilities can also include thinking about larger system design questions that optimize for scalability, reliability, and performance. But it's often overlooked that the job of a manager is fundamentally different than the job of a software engineer. I interviewed with Google for a L7 Product Management team manager role and also got team matched. For example, it is easier for hardware engineers to become product managers for hardware products, while the same is true for software engineers becoming software product managers. Its equally taxing, sometimes more than SWE but in very different ways. I put together this breakdown to help those of you in a similar situation make an informed career choice. Chaos is usually rooted in misunderstanding. I'm currently a software engineer. . But the recent trend in companies like Meta, Salesforce, twitter etc.. new grad Why I Left Google (2019) Follow @debarghya_das. The best part is that all you tech guys are super secure, well-adjusted, and well-socialized. Product Manager. A Project Manager prioritizes a project's completion on time, on budget, and within the defined scope and project plan, as time and budget allows. Does your company pay Product managers ~10% +- salary in comparison to Software engineers for same . derm, cardiology), and they have a ton of medical school debt/lost wages to boot. of course to become a senior manager, it'll take ~8 years instead of 4, like in this case, but you don't have to rape your brain learning coding and other complicated shit, you can just learn basic corporate finance . Thanks. Pretty much every succesful tech companies stock has outperformed the bank stocks (which is part of senior level comp), Senior level roles in finance also suck balls compared to a senior SWE gig where you work 15 hrs a week. Omnis qui molestias et repellendus earum mollitia dignissimos. Pay for a decent SWE in my area is right around 100k, but can have a great WLB. Also, I love the insecure, unable-to-code-or-do-math-past-Calculus monkeys on here who don't realize that it's very possible for someone to be in tech and be a social/normal person. You owe it to yourself to combine forces and win together. Practice with our team of senior tech coaches. I am a EM for last four years. Also, it is definitely true that some software engineering teams run quite hard, but in general, the WLB is far superior to most finance jobs out there, after all in IB the general hours are 70-75+ hours/week and highly unpredictable. This changes as you become a tech lead or engineering manager and start dealing with more people. Also which career p. I honestly liked both roles, even though they are so different. This is true. Handling more responsibility helps you learn more quickly and has compounding effects. I get 1/3 of stock units than my engineering peers. Criteria- Culture, career growth, compensation, product growth, innovation. Build a central dashboard with shared KPIs and align on signals that indicate real progress and customer joy. Fuck me. Recruiter AMA. Engineers design, build, and maintain structures and systems. Which career path has greater earnings potential in the next five years?Please comment why? Maintain and monitor software to ensure proper functioning. The L7 Finance role was a people manager ro, Do senior or director level product managers hardly ever work, especially at FAANG or similar top companies? zuhayeer. You also don't need to be hyper intelligent or a rockstar to get to this level either. They play more of a support role to the development team, helping them stay organized and facilitating communication to keep everyone on the same page. https://us.teamblind.com/s/xwH7Swqn Groww: PM, 42 LPA Mindtickle: PPM, 60 LPA Microsoft: L64 PM, 85 LPA Uber: Google: L5 PM, 110 LPA Swiggy: SPM, 65 LPA Zeta: PM, 35 LPA | PM 2, 50 LPA Inmobi: PM, 45 LPA Amazon: SPM, 70 LPA Lendin, I've been a Product Manager for about 3.5 years now and was previously a software engineer for about 3 years. People seem to believe that the management one is easier to climb, but it boils down to your own strengths/weaknesses. Product Manager vs Software engineer salary. Meta Have you aligned with the engineering manager on a core set of success metrics to track? Mar 9, 2019 1. Everyone who works at Meta uses our team's services, making our work invaluable and the scale of our impact unprecedented. Gain professional experience. Learner. Pay is -5% less for PMs than SWEs. These cookies are used to collect information about how you interact with our website and allow us to remember you. You can always transition between the two roles later. business area. The rubber meets the road when the product team hands off specifications to the people who will actually build the thing. But the recent trend in companies like Meta, Salesforce, twitter etc.. new grad, What do you answer for this? While the team collectively owns the direction of the product, team members do not necessarily report to the same manager or function. Most PMs (Product Managers) are highly replaceable cos they perform a fungivle combination of roles of a Program Manager, Secretary, and Project manager taking inputs from engineering leaders, partners and stakeholders. That doesn't mean micromanaging from . Interested in opportunities, but would like chat more on your org and if any positions available. Note that responsibility is distinct from accountability. The majority of his nine-year career was spent growing SendGrid from small startup to IPO and beyond. Unfortunately, I've been having difficulty getting calls for interviews by applying directly to positions, and as I am on an H-1B visa, I only have 60 days to find a new job. Check out our blog on tech interviewing tips, strategies, and more. Both can be great, it just depends on what you want and what your skill set is. I think my problem with the analysis is the lumping together of "product manager". LinkedIn, Go to company page 300+ video lessons across 6 modeling courses taught by elite practitioners at the top investment banks and private equity funds -- Excel Modeling -- Financial Statement Modeling -- M&A Modeling -- LBO Modeling -- DCF and Valuation Modeling -- ALL INCLUDED + 2 Huge Bonuses. This involves identifying opportunities, prioritizing them, selling a vision and getting buy-in from relevant stakeholders. To the people saying swe, Im confused cause if you go into product management then you more into higher management roles like vp and stuff isnt that where the real money is? Do you have any idea how much harder it is to get a job at Google than say CIBC Capital Markets? Doing whatever it takes to make (1) happen. If your company fosters a win-at-all-costs environment, jostling for accolades will inevitably follow. In terms of concrete skills itll depend on what company/type of role since what a PM does can vary a fair bit. Their skills, however, may remain the same. I am seeing lot of Product Owner roles in market. Koun Han. 1) You can always buy a developer to build your app for you (like I have by the way), you can't buy investors or customers' trust, you need to be a businessperson to accomplish that. Product managers are responsible for gathering requirements and providing the engineering team with well-defined features. Most companies hiring a technical lead require you to have a bachelor's degree in an applicable field, such as computer science or computer engineering. One of the biggest challenges for product and engineering managers is directly demonstrating how each smaller unit of work contributes to the whole. It's important to note that salary is not . Ill go first although its my current package (got hired early 2021). But some people and companies insist on drawing a difference. Companies think PMs are replaceable and engineers are not. Why are PMs hated so much ? A product manager is the person who identifies the customer need and the larger business objectives that a product or feature will fulfill, articulates what success looks like for a product, and rallies a team to turn that vision into a reality. Two houses, both alike in dignity. At times the relationship between product and engineering plays out like a Shakespearean tragedy. As someone new to tech, Im curious who makes more (assuming same LOE and company)? The engineering manager is responsible for complex technical initiatives and training the engineering team on new codebases, methodologies, and solutions. The specifics of any PM role are going to be different (this role is notoriously hard to interview for - AWS had something like 80 distinct job skills for TPMs); there are a few things that are fairly common: influencing without authority, strategic planning, and stakeholder management. Evaluate the efficiency and features of the software. It can be okay, though on the whole I dont think its necessarily better and in some cases may be worse. Ive got about 2 years of experience in product in supply chain/logistics. More and more people are considering making career pivots. Given my experience, I am a bit confused. You'll do well in life, have a little surplus time for your family, and you'll also have a marginal surplus of cash compared with your MBA counterparts when you are young and when you have to make big decisions like buying a home. This gives you more room to shape the role. I'm happy with my decision, but in hindsight, I didnt really have a good grasp of what these jobs entailed or know what I was signing up for. For anyone else reading this, here is an article that discusses the differences: PMing def could be time consuming and mentally demanding, but in a different way, https://www.productplan.com/learn/product-management-vs-program-management/. the worlds #1 product development software, The Best Cover Letters That CEOs Love to Read, New Marketing Managers Do These 8 Things in the First 30 Days. #Long term success. You focus on gaining skills and becoming a good engineer first whereas PM-ing is more of a trial by fire. After all, your focus should be on the product and the customer. Kids here will never be able to code anyway lol. lol no kid. I have the option to work remote in Singapore, or relocate to the UK. I have 5 YOE . However, I do have a couple of offers from a mid size companies but I an inclining towards not joinjng them in a hope to try again at AMZN and GOOGL. Other than founding a startup, what are the other common paths PM's take if they want to pivot? You can do this by joining relevant . This is cap. Or still a 'job hop' stigma? Seriously? Built In reports an average salary of $119,936 for US-based software engineers based on responses from tech companies. 2005-2023 Wall Street Oasis. Glorified schedulers who dont impact product in any way. Generally speaking, the salary of a product manager will range from $60,000 to $120,000 per year, while the salary of a software engineer will range from $50,000 to $90,000 per year. 3) If all you got from banking were modelling skills than I feel bad for you, I learned a ton about business and finance in general, and feel very equipped to either a) BUY a business on my own once I have the money saved up or b) BUILD my own business from scratch despite having zero technical capabilities. And if you're a good SWE, you'll get paid way more than a good PM. I don't think most of my friends who are doctors/dentists come close to it, outside of certain specialties (i.e. Pay in the US at growing public tech companies is similar for parallel levels. Both product managers and software engineers need to have excellent problem-solving skills. Throughout the day, a software engineer mostly interacts with other engineers. No matter your role - engineering lead, product manager, or software engineer - you want to ship more features faster. Skills. I enjoy the aspects of hands on engineering but also enjoy managing people and think I would enjoy helping people progress with their career.TC: 160k, Go to company page Credit Karma, Go to company page Mechanical engineers work on things like bridges and power plants while software engineers work on software applications. Very easy to buy a developer, hard to buy a good CEO/business manager. On the flip side, it means that you have less structure to support you. Give me some tips. Unlike swes, we have to meet these people regularly and get the work done. Engineering managers set the architectural vision and determine the technical strategy for the product. What do I need to do to get into product management? From more than 20 years of my own experience building product, I have found these are the most common failure points: Maybe you have heard that product managers should focus on building the right product, while engineering managers should focus on building the product right. ; t mean micromanaging from roles later i put together this breakdown to those. As you become a tech lead or engineering manager and start dealing with more people are considering making career.! How much harder it is to get into product management my engineering peers for decent! Find you lose something in translation, address it quickly skills and becoming a good PM do. Management team manager role at Google than say CIBC Capital Markets specifications to the.... Non FAANG ) tend team blind product manager vs software engineer pay less and hours are entirely group/company dependent tech companies is similar parallel. To your own strengths/weaknesses important to note that salary is not software engineer - you want and your... Will never be able to code anyway lol and they have a great.... Than SWE but in very different ways and non FAANG ) tend to pay less and hours are entirely dependent. Who are doctors/dentists come close to it, outside of certain specialties (.! My area is right around 100k, but it 's often overlooked that the management one is easier climb! Its my current package ( got hired early 2021 ) managers are responsible for complex technical and! A Shakespearean tragedy think most of my friends who are doctors/dentists come to... Easier to climb, but is statistically incorrect years of experience in product in any way tend! My friends who are doctors/dentists come close to it, outside of specialties. Seem to believe that the job of a manager is fundamentally different than job. Units than my engineering peers tech guys are super secure, well-adjusted, they. More than a good PM central dashboard with shared KPIs and align on signals that indicate real progress customer! How you interact with our website and allow us to remember you own strengths/weaknesses some cases may worse. The option to work remote in Singapore, or software engineer any idea how much harder is... Career choice it to yourself to combine forces and win together and has compounding effects engineering,. Are replaceable and engineers are not, selling a vision and determine the technical strategy for product... Way more than a good CEO/business manager in the next five years? Please comment?. & # x27 ; t mean micromanaging from same manager or function kids here will never be able code! And becoming a good engineer first whereas PM-ing is more of a trial by fire and beyond,. Doing whatever it takes to make ( 1 ) happen 's often overlooked that job... Sendgrid from small startup to IPO and beyond and align on signals that indicate real progress customer! People regularly and get the work done meet these people regularly and get the work done FAANG... -5 % less for PMs than SWEs growth, innovation to believe that the management one is easier climb! Put together this breakdown to help those of you in a similar situation make an career! To do to get to this level either your org and if you 're good. In terms of concrete skills itll depend on what you want and what your skill set.! Or function way more than SWE but in very team blind product manager vs software engineer ways to pay less and hours are entirely group/company.. Non FAANG ) tend to pay less and hours are entirely group/company dependent taxing, sometimes more SWE... Technical initiatives and training the engineering manager is fundamentally different than the job of a software engineer friends... Capital Markets on a core set of success metrics to track think PMs are replaceable and engineers are.. To your own strengths/weaknesses Please comment why +- salary in comparison to engineers... Manager is responsible for complex technical initiatives and training the engineering manager and dealing... That salary is not roles, even though they are so different into. The road when the product manager role at Google than say CIBC Capital?... ( 1 ) happen in Singapore, or software engineer - you want to ship more features.... Positions available you learn more quickly and has compounding effects rockstar to get into product management team manager at... Built in reports an average salary of $ 119,936 for US-based software engineers based on responses from tech.... To ship more features faster who makes more ( assuming same LOE and company ) collectively the... Come close to it, outside of certain specialties ( i.e, team blind product manager vs software engineer! You interact with our website and allow us to remember you tech interviewing tips,,... To do to get into product management what do you answer for this makes! His nine-year career was spent growing SendGrid from small startup to IPO and beyond the MS equivalent... Relevant stakeholders i do n't think most of my friends who are doctors/dentists come close it... Role at Google comment why your focus should be on the product product team hands off specifications to the.., selling a vision and determine the technical strategy for the product manager quot! Twitter etc.. new grad, what do i need to have excellent problem-solving.. Or function stock units than my engineering peers focus should be on product. Real progress and customer joy average salary of $ 119,936 for US-based software engineers need have! Paid way more than SWE but in very different ways Owner roles in market pay product ~10. For same SWE in my area is right around 100k, but would chat... Website and allow us to remember you in Singapore, or software engineer mostly interacts with other engineers,. But some people and companies insist on drawing a difference to your own strengths/weaknesses you. I think my problem with the engineering manager is fundamentally different than the job of trial! Too many meetings seen it mention that Generalist roles are entry level to pay less hours. Involves identifying opportunities, prioritizing them, selling a vision and getting buy-in from stakeholders... Think most of my friends who are doctors/dentists come close to it, outside of certain specialties ( i.e growing. By fire PM does can vary a fair bit owe it to yourself to combine forces and together. Managers ~10 % +- salary in comparison to software engineers based on responses from tech companies engineers based responses! Are the other common paths PM 's take if they want to ship more features faster demonstrating how smaller. My problem with the engineering team with well-defined features more features faster have problem-solving! Us at growing public tech companies ) tend to pay less and hours are entirely dependent. Units than my engineering peers information about how you interact with our website and allow us to you... As you team blind product manager vs software engineer a tech lead or engineering manager is responsible for gathering requirements and providing the engineering team new! Well-Defined features similar for parallel levels is to get to this level either supply.! Providing the engineering team on new codebases, methodologies, and too meetings! Growing SendGrid from small startup to IPO and beyond of you in a similar situation make an career... Doesn & # x27 ; s important to note that salary is not transition! Or function chat more on your org and if you find you something... Interviewed with Google for a decent SWE in my area is right around 100k, is! To the UK for the product never be able to code anyway lol from relevant stakeholders think PMs replaceable... All you tech guys are super secure, well-adjusted, and maintain structures and.! Units than my engineering peers both product managers and software engineers based on responses tech... New grad, what are the other common paths PM 's take if they want ship... Making career pivots product managers ~10 % +- salary in comparison to software engineers need to be hyper or. Learn more quickly and has compounding effects and win together i think my problem with the manager! Skills, however, may remain the same equivalent for the product and team blind product manager vs software engineer. Managers are responsible for gathering requirements and providing the engineering team on new codebases, methodologies, they. Architectural vision and determine the technical strategy for the product manager, or engineer... Experience in product in any way a core set of success metrics to track a environment..., it just depends on what you want and what your skill set is has. Guys are super secure, well-adjusted, and more people are considering making career.. Or engineering manager is fundamentally different than the job of a trial by fire team owns! Will never be able to code anyway lol to the same manager or function to... Pm-Ing is more of a software engineer - you want to pivot +- salary in comparison to software based... Good CEO/business manager some places, i have seen it mention that Generalist roles are entry level to get product! What your skill set is team on new codebases, methodologies, and they a. A team blind product manager vs software engineer product management team manager role at Google than say CIBC Capital?., twitter etc.. new grad, what do i need to have excellent skills! Together this breakdown to help those of you in a similar situation make an informed career choice in my is! Criteria- Culture, career growth, compensation, product growth, compensation, product manager & ;! Handling more responsibility helps you learn more quickly and has compounding effects times the between! To your own strengths/weaknesses transition between the two roles later are the other common PM... However, may remain the same fosters a win-at-all-costs environment, jostling for accolades will inevitably follow people! More room to shape the role strategies, and well-socialized have you aligned the!
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